Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations book commentary

[electrowizard]

I've said this shit for like 4 days straight. Hbotz is too stupid to understand or he's arguing in bad faith. Either way, I'm going to berate him

[iaafr]

@hbotz

what you want in life is a property of your brain. you will want things regardless of your positions on science and empiricism. you generally dont decide what you want through rational consideration. you also dont decide what you want to want through rational consideration. however, you can answer classes of questions like "if i wanted to maximize the welfare of everyone on earth, what sorts of things would be optimal to want to want?" and this is accessible to science and empiricism. but do you actually want to maximize the welfare of everyone on earth? i assert that you cannot actually access this. what philosophy and mindset you have will influence this in practice, but you do not actually "decide" what you want or what you want to want in a rational-consideration sense.

i mean i dont believe in free will either, but within the context of labeling processes, i believe its certainly possible to have "rational consideration" involved in the process as opposed to not involved.

but i mean limits of rationality

but i mean thats the whole reason why you should read more philosophy if you care about these terms

(dont think you should still)

[LuckyArtist]

It’s like anything. we live, experience it in the moment, and grow in some way

It might not mean anything to you but the best part is that at least nightmares aren’t real

Even if you remember them for months, that’s all they will ever be

[hbotz]

in short, what you "should want" is unanswerable even in principle because there is no moral directive. what you "want to want" is an empirical fact. people do have moral philosophies that do affect what they want to want, but there is no real "shouldness" and i have no advice on the matter. but i do advise you to avoid things that make you go to jail.

[LuckyArtist]

You’re supposed to at least be in the top third of kohlbergs stages bud cmon

[electrowizard]

What's your educational background with respect to science, math, philosophy of science, and philosophy of mathematics? Not just formal, but self-education as well. And what form did the self-education take?

[LuckyArtist]

Maybe this is all because hbotz didn’t get crucial cognitive development in his adolescence

[Nyte]

@electrowizard

Absolutely treating science as a false idol has massive implications for negative societal effects. That's how shit like eugenics becomes popularized

this is what you are saying now. hbotz doesn't have to be "too stupid" to understand, he just may not understand yet. he could be arguing in bad faith, but then your approach is to 0 avail anyway, because berating him won't gain you support locally, generally speaking. ignoring him would probably be more effective in getting him to remove his opinions.

[iaafr]

im stuck in teenagebrain for life i think but whatever i rnged this life i can still find fun in it

[hbotz]

xd i thought about morality for a while then gave up.

im no sociopath so i do have "morality" in the sense that doing bad things makes me feel bad. i dont think this version of morality is actually much weaker than a codefied one, because typically people mostly do whatever they like and retroactively justify it against the moral code anyway.

[Nyte]

ahhhhh, but there is no sensory experience. so how are they not just as real as anything that ever was?

[electrowizard]

@Nyte

he just may not understand yet.

This is just as worthy of being berated because I've provided sources that are short essays and even wiki articles that he refuses to read

[LuckyArtist]

Dude meta ethics is so cool I sincerely feel bad for u

[electrowizard]

What's your educational background with respect to science, math, philosophy of science, and philosophy of mathematics? Not just formal, but self-education as well. And what form did the self-education take?

[iaafr]

@Nyte

this is what you are saying now . hbotz doesn't have to be "too stupid" to understand, he just may not understand yet. he could be arguing in bath faith, but then your approach is to 0 avail anyway, because berating him won't gain you support locally, generally speaking. ignoring him would probably be more effective in getting him to remove his opinions.

your rational argument isnt going to change ewiz's emotional processes with stuff he viscerally finds dumb

but i mean i guess i shouldnt discourage you from trying idk i just felt compelled to type what i think here

[iaafr]

ethics is definitely a dank branch of philosophy tho

[electrowizard]

I actually found it the least interesting

[hbotz]

ah well ethics is important. you can still make rules and laws with good effects. and "good effects" isnt vacuous because people in general have common ground on what kinds of things are good. so if ur designing systems u should think about this stuff but i think when designing systems its important to be robust to amoral sociopaths.

ethics good morality bad

[electrowizard]

@hbotz why do you keep dodging the question? What's your educational background with respect to science, math, philosophy of science, and philosophy of mathematics? Not just formal, but self-education as well. And what form did the self-education take?

[Nyte]

you're talking about becoming educated on something that people learn in formal education programs, within 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 4 days?

and maybe he even is?
give him a break. give yourself a break. you want him to evolve? learn how to be a teacher ewiz. then make your crusade.