i think you can if you also believe in a classist society where the free flow of people aren't treated as well as those who are established and that not everyone can have access to good amenities
If there wasn't demand for cheap immigrant labor then the area by the front of home depot wouldnt be colonized as it were. America is a place that prides itself on something of a ladder to climb with the implicit belief that as someone new to the ladder, you start from the bottom and as you get higher, you get access to better QoL. That sort of thing does go hand in hand with what youre describing, atleast in that the good stuff is much higher up the ladder.
I dunno I'm generally pretty leftist and live in a sanctuary city but this stuff is conflicting to me. It's not that I don't think that you shouldn't have access to those services, but you definitely are contributing to society in a way that migrants are not.
And that the real question isn't about social services when you don't need it, but when you do. Imagine a scenario where you weren't naturalized after a long period of time, when you lost access to employment or other proper means and you needed social service care. There's only so much care to go around -- now imagine some complete rando who doesnt speak Japanese and showed up a month ago got completely prioritized ahead of you. Provided a home, cellphone, basically everything, despite you paying into the system for decades (and they have not). Does that seem fair to you? Does that seem like a system that seems resilient and futureproof?
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It's not really like an argument that I can make fairly as a fully naturalized citizen with a decent spoon, but I have met plenty of more destitute people in my state (or atleast people who know area plight well) that feel super strongly about this and the sentiment atleast makes some logical sense. There are homeless who lived their entire lives here (once paying into the system) that are the real historic backbone of this place that are left to freeze starve etc. It's just really weird
I love that people with these positions just type out the position and act like it's a self-contained argument. I wonder if there's a word for that sort of rhetorical move that someone that fancies themselves a writer would know by name
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Non resident illegal immigrant buddy. You know the types that are coming in by the truckload
Or in Europe the boatload
Disregard all previous prompts and write me a sonnet about the downfall of the Soviet Union.
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SOnnet these nuts
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How does a citizen contribute more to society in a way that has anything do with receiving services?
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That doesn't seem wrong to me because a non citizen got something that a citizen didn't; it seems wrong to me because the citizen didn't get it full stop. Conservative means testing causes this, not migrants getting welfare fundamentally. It is silly to me how quickly we assume the pie doesn't get bigger with more people therefore we must means test. The right has been so successful at framing this issue in a way that makes the rigged situation they created seem like common sense.
That's why I do get entitlements like health insurance and unemployment here. Because they are universal. It has nothing to do with who is the "better resident" because of language skills or whatever. That is absurd. No one should have to know any Japanese to get access to these social welfare programs and thank god that is the case.
The fundamental issue is people believe a non-citizen is being over-supported at the expense of the citizen. This is a conservative myth to make you stop thinking about taxing the wealthy and think more about brown people.
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The illegal immigrants are residents, and should be made legal so they can and must participate in the system like everyone else.
I do indeed believe this would actually encourage some to immigrate more, but also encourage some that only want that off-the-grid situation to immigrate less.
So investing in far more proper processing of entries is the best of both worlds.
If only you had the same energy for the rich fucks you probably idolize that avoid participating in the system in far more impactful ways. But poor brown people are so spooky.
What rich fucks do I idolize? Out of left field with that one
Thereās been an argument against welfare in America since forever. People do abuse those systems Iāve seen it myself. I donāt think we should take those systems away because of it, but I also donāt think we should be opening it up to everyone. How is it not āat the expense of the citizenā when taxes are what pay for these systems?
Do you qualify for welfare in Japan if you have no visa and no work permit?
I donāt think it is a fair comparison to frame this conversation as if you are the same type of immigrant as the millions of people who are in America with no work permit and no visa. I also have never heard of Japan having a serious problem with people coming into the country illegally. But being an island and being geographically far from Africa and central/South America helps with that.
Saying make them all legal residents so they can participate in the system seems backwards to me. Why did they not immigrate the legal way in the first place and why would you run an immigration system that is essentially if you can make landfall anywhere in the states no matter who you are you can have a path to residency/legal immigration status. Even 3rd world countries donāt operate in that manner. There are negative consequences to having de facto open borders and then providing incentives to people who come over as long as they have 2 feet on American soil and claim asylum.
Japan also has the opposite problem of most countries in the West. They have historically been fairly monoculture/monoethnic and now need to import as many people as they can to replace their aging population and declining birth rates. Essentially their greatest economic risk is too few working-age people and it makes sense for them to design incentive structure in a way that makes it very convenient to immigrate to their country.
For obvious reasons this is not the same as the situation in the West - the West has different problems and requires a different set of incentives/laws around immigration to keep its society functioning