insom what you dont realize is many of us are liberal or even further left than nyt
NYT is neoliberal - it is not true liberalism, it is the dusty balls of liberalism. Read Zizek
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i literally only read/link articles from there if its a subject im learning about
i dont âreadâ any one newspaper
and ive prolly spent more time on /pol/ than all of you combined, i just came to the conclusion it is 99% nonsense or at best highly editorialised, far more than liberal media is
sure, which book. i will.
i know all about neo liberalism, i have read every single book by chomsky, its single biggest critic.
my problem is when the âfake newsâ narrative gets taken too far and used to push conservative propaganda, which it absolutely is
you guys have turned this into me âdefendingâ the NYT because i linked a few of their articles lol.
yes it is infested with cronyism and nepotism, like almost EVERY OTHER big industry
NO that does not make it all âfake newsâ
all news should be viewed on a case by case basis, not tossed aside because of a narrative. that goes for FOX too, im not suggesting everything they say or post is âfake newsâ just that have been the most openly agenda driven, least truthful news agency in the USA since its inception. and this whole âHillary bad WAPO NYT badâ is no different than âorange man badâ. its not helpful, and it takes away from real discussion
which is why i tried to deconstruct that NYT piece on russian bounties on a case by case basis, and i came to the conclusion it is probably true
1st sentence has a misplaced comma - I cant continue reading
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I think we all probably agree with each other mostly
Nobody contests that pol is garbage for example
We just disagree if you try to draw lines around the "bad" people as if there aren't bad people throughout the political spectrum
I'm not trying to do that, I'm trying to be pragmatic
my single biggest issue is climate change and there are surely not 'good people' in the republican party taking that issue seriously rn
its more equivalent to a greedy oil fueled free for all with money addicted billionaires raping the planet with little micropenis errections poking through their $2000 pants
I also take issue with the idea that NYT and WaPo are to be disregarded as "neo liberal propaganda"
read marx, lenin, engels, trotsky.
the problem with arguing with u is that u think ure educated and read enough that ur opinions are right and u don't consider other viewpoints. u haven't really responded to anything i've said.
like u don't consider it weird that these publications continue to advocate for war in s. america and the middle east. how they've put out lies which have gotten millions of people killed. how weirdly every single communist country in the world is evil and doing bad things and we need to stop them. how these assholes worship adam smith and milton friedman and go on and on about modern economic theory and how capitalism is great. how it's weird that wapo and nyt will both vet articles with the state department. ur not going to change ur mind since ur a dumb pea brained lib but u don't even acknowledge that this shit is weird, it's all "well fox news is worse, orange man bad."
I have read Trotsky, "The Essential Trotsky" is on my bed as we speak. I can show you a picture lol.
I'm sorry that you feel I'm not responding to your viewpoints fairly or in good faith, which ones do you feel I should take a second look at? And it would be helpful if you could summarize your points a bit more
I'm not anti-communist, I'm well aware of CIA/American meddling in the middle east and especially latin america. I'd love to talk to you about the overthrow of Batista, Castro's rise to power, how Che Guevara was the only real communist in the whole revolution. I'd love to talk to you about how different the USSR would have been under Trotsky instead of Stalin. But you don't really give me the chance to do that if you post "go read a book pea brained lib".
I know these things, and I STILL think that voting democrat is going to do more good for the world than voting republican. Period. And I'm trying to explain why.
Abstaining your vote is not going to radically change the system in the way you want it to, it is going to allow the republicans to keep winning. I actually can't think of a single type of change it's going to make at all, beyond giving more power to the boomer vote and taking away power from the young vote.
it's all "well fox news is worse, orange man bad."
Okay, but why is "NYT man bad, Hillary man bad, WaPo man bad" a reasonable counter argument? I don't think that it is.
I titled this thread ANTI-TRUMPISM, a thread in which I want to try to encourage people to vote against Trump. Not "Pro NYT thread" or "Pro Hillary thread".
I just think Fox news and Donald Trump are WORSE and voting him OUT OF POWER is the best thing for the future of the planet.
If you had to choose between WaPo, NYT, and Biden or 4 more years of FOX and Trump, which would you choose? Because those are your two choices, my guy. And if you abstain, you're throwing away a highly important vote, not enough young people vote. You are in many ways betraying the interests of your own generation because of some personal sense of self righteous pride about how vote abstaining is the only way forward, combined with other means of bringing about change outside of voting.
And that would be fine if it wasn't 2020, and climate change wasn't in the process of putting our climate into an irreversible death spiral that will doom our species to extinction.
I would even suggest that if Lenin were around today he'd consider you something of a class traitor, if caring about the future of the planet were a class (I know this is a stretch). In my analogy it's not so much about class as it is your fellow young people around the globe. It's about how you're allowing pessimism and apathy to act as an excuse to not vote against the party that is so clearly more into wrecking the planet than the other.
Similiar to the way certain Serfs refused to take up arms against the Bourgeois during the Russian revolution. Just because you have no faith in the system, and you have given up, doesn't give you the right to inflict that on your fellow young people, both at home and abroad. I mean you do have that right, but I think it makes you a traitor. I can forgive abstaining in 2016, I cannot forgive it in 2020. You are the powerful most country on earth, your head of state greatly affects ALL OF OUR futures, not just yours. I am BEGGING YOU to please vote D in this coming election.
We in other countries do NOT have the power to vote, and like it or not you live in the most relevant, powerful country on earth. And who you have as your head of state DOES MATTER, even if you think it doesn't, and have a whole bunch of very legitimate, true, meaningful reasons as to why it doesn't matter - much - , it still DOES matter.
Climate change is very real and I take issue with you not voting against the person who spent the last 4 years enabling it to run wild.
You can't have an armed revolution. This is not post war Russia with a shattered military, a crushed people, and underfed underpaid and hungry soldiers with cause to desert. You have the strongest military in human history with the most advanced military technology in human history. So I say again, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN ARMED REVOLUTION. You have a two party system, like it or not. With a giant police force and military that is going to KEEP IT that way, for the time being. The only way you can "take up arms" in this political system is to VOTE. You can protest, you can protest violently, but you must also VOTE. That's an important part of the process towards change. Abstaining is not going to create real change. So you can choose between one party that will kinda destroy the planet, and another that will fuck it in the ass with no condom on and also bring in some pals to help.
Now, you can protest, you can protest violently, but it should be in the spirit of putting pressure on certain politicians to change their views, and creating an entire other group of politicians who represent your views, AND THEN FUCKING VOTING FOR THEM. AND NOT THE PEOPLE SUPPORTING THE FASCIST POLICE SHIT KICKING YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE TRYING TO MAKE CHANGE.
You can't tackle every issue in one election but climate change and how it's approached in the next 10 years will quite literally determine the future of our species, and you have one party that treats this issue with far more neglect than the other. It's really that simple for me.
Milton Friedman I believe was the one who said a true capitalist economy could not work with massive monopolies, so by his definition what you have today is NOT a true free market economy. But you're making a whole bunch of unfair, untrue, and downright rude assumptions about me. And I don't think you've even read that much of what I've typed in here to begin with.
edit: parts of this are garbled and need further editing but i am too tired to continue and need to take a break from this
Instead of shitting on me for what it is you think I don't know, why don't you explain that stuff to me in a calm, polite way, and in a way that refutes some of what I'm saying? Because I'm typing a lot of words but my point is pretty simple:
Climate change is important
Lesser of two evils voting is necessary when something as important as climate change is at stake
To the best of my knowledge both WaPo and NYT are writing expose pieces on South American meddling and strongly worded anti war in the middle east pieces? Or am I wrong on that? Can you show me anything recent where they advocate for either of these things?
I haven't read Marx Engles or Lenin, I'll give you that. But I understand their ideas pretty well because my dad has read all of them extensively his whole entire life and wouldn't shut the fuck up about it when I was growing up.
I don't want to sit here saying "I've read this" and "I've read that" but you guys are using "go read ___" as a literal counter argument, what am I supposed to do? Lie? Also 'go read an entire book that will make my argument for me' is a pretty lazy and bad faith way to discuss anything with someone, not gonna lie. I'd even go so far as to call it 'pea brained'. Why do I have to go and read a book? Are you not capable of summarizing its ideas in a way that resembles an argument? Why do you have to be so fucking rude in the first place? I'm a pretty sensitive guy, and when you say shit like that to me it hurts my feelings. Please don't do that. Lets talk about communism and neo-liberalism and capitalism and all that good shit, because It's fun for me and I enjoy it. I'm REALLY NOT trying to shit on ANYONE or make ANYONE feel bad, or stupid, or anything like that. I'm just super fucking passionate and I have nobody in my life other than my dad to talk to about this stuff. That's it.
here is how I think you should weight your political vote for 2020
CLIMATE CHANGE
Who is going to do more to combat this? If you think it's R, vote R. If you think it's D, vote D. If you hate both parties but don't want the planet to die, vote D.
THAT'S IT.
I want to have kids, and grand kids, and I want them to HAVE A FUCKING PLANET THAT IS HABITABLE
If you want to get back into vote abstaining, if you truly believe that is the way forward, and you have a coherent argument as to why, THAT'S GREAT AND I SUPPORT YOU. I just think you should get back to that AFTER you vote out potentially the greatest threat to the human species since Adolf Hitler.
No single human has had more power, more malicious intent, and more willingness to use said power than Trump. I'd hear you out on a few previous American presidents, specifically Eisenhower/Nixon and their bay of pigs operation, and the way they withheld the information from Kennedy while he was running. That I would be willing to accept. But the fact is Trump is just as dangerous, and just as willing to use his considerable power. And he hasn't yet, thankfully. But that doesn't mean he won't, the fact he hasn't yet isn't good enough. Everything we know about his personality and the way he deals with foreign leaders tells us this. He was actively provoking NK on twitter for christs sakes. You can take a hard line approach on NK without fucking tweeting about 'rocketman'. Goddamnit, everybody has nukes, you cannot be doing that shit. You just cannot.
Not to mention his complete ignorance on VERY important subjects, which is a different type of threat to the world, one that we haven't had to deal with until now. Until now, being anti-intellectual/anti-science or simply ignorant about science made you just that, it was something to be taken at face value. NOW it means that politicians like this are either knowingly or unknowingly contributing to a possible extinction event. We've never had to deal with this before, ever. But that doesn't make it any less of a threat.
Here's a new swine flu that apparently also has pandemic potential, this is less than 24 hours old. And this is just the start, China is going to keep shitting these things out into the world until they have a very serious regime change and also culture change, which could take 50+ years all together. We DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THAT.
So again, having an anti-science guy in charge for the foreseeable future is FUCKING DANGEROUS AS HELL. Oh and he's also an insecure bully who is collaborating with an evil expansionist militaristic ex-KGB/Mafia guy. Not. Good. At. All.
NATO allowed Russia to annex Crimea (fucking useless cowards that they are), and Russia is currently posturing to invade Europe. China is fucking with India, because India decided to build a bunch of military facilities next to an important trade route. Naredna Modi is a really dangerous fascist, by the way. IF China and India get into a land war, I GUARANTEE Russia will launch a full scale invasion of Ukraine and Europe.
I hate to link another VICE news video here, but Isobel Yeung is a fantastic reporter and I think you should give this video a chance. It doesn't paint a very good picture of the situation in Crimea, and it's quite recent. It's only 14 minutes, and it's undeniably entertaining to watch on top of being educational. If you want to skip to the part I'm referring to, the "posturing to invade UKR and EU" it's at 13:10. It's only a few words from one man, but there are many other sources claiming the exact same thing. Constant military convoys. Military posturing. Etc. Could it be a show of force to get a better deal from the EU and ease oil sanctions? Sure it could. Would I put it past them to invade the EU if all hell broke loose? Absolutely not.
I also don't see how anyone could consider VICE fake news when all they do is go around and talk to people from an area, people from both sides of whatever issue they may be discussing or facing, and then simply state the facts and how they relate to what each side says to them during interviews. I don't see how anyone could call that fake news.
VICE media and VICE news are two very different parts of the same company, with completely different writers, editors, managers, staff, etc. One is a wanna-be shitty buzzfeed that was created to generate more revenue, the other is extremely important investigative journalism in the parts of the world that need it most. Don't equate the two, they're similar in name only.
So forigve me if I find it troubling that mountains of evidence is coming out about how Trump is in bed with Putin, and how Putin helped get him elected in the first place. I cannot comment on the alternate history of a Hillary presidency, but I can certainly comment on what we have today in 2020. And it's VERY troubling.
entire future of our species is at stake I don't want to hear about Hillaries emails or what a warhawk she was (I KNOW!!!) I want you to vote against the guy who is an active participation in the raping of our planet for profit
"With great power comes great responsibility" Well America, you DO have great power, as you've been reminding us since 9/11. I'd like to see you do something better than "But China and India does it too so we're not gonna change" when it comes to climate change. That's why I'm so fucking angry.
I don't give a fuck about Hillarys emails because she would have at least taken climate change more seriously than Trump. That's IT man. It's THAT simple for me. Also she would have handled co-vid far better, this isn't even debatable. She is, however deplorable, at a level of intelligence capable of understanding basic science and also not so egotistical as to ignore her scientific advisors during a literal pandemic. I really believe those two statements to be true. Being a fake robotic warhawk neo-lib doesn't mean you can't also understand science, which I really believe Trump does not, not even at a highschool level.
You realize those emails kind of reveal that she is a war criminal and a pedophile right? You really think climate change is an issue and you are worried about trump and not china/india? You arent even from america, why are you so worried about our president when you dont even live here. The majority of americans love trump and more and more appreciate him as days go on. The internet is not an accurate reflection of the average american, because the average american works hard and is mostly middle class and is tired of being controlled by hegelian dialectic that constantly takes away our freedoms. Quite frankly the average american also doesnt have time to argue with marxist commies who legitimately are so quick to call you racist, sexist, or a bigot, anytime you say something borderline, also quick to dox you and ruin your life any time you have a negative reaction to something. We have families, careers and people to protect, and trump is our trumpet because hes taking all the flak and pain for things that real americans want to say/ and want to happen.
He aint perfect, but hes not the one with a fucking huge body count and kills people who has any dirt on him like killary clinton does. look up clinton body count. Shes pure fucking evil, and you really are going to find reasons or straws to grasp at for trump to try and paint him as evil. Trump was the only choice in the 2016 election, everyone knew that had he lost the world would of been over. and quite frankly if oyu lived in a smaller country, we would of blown you off the fucking map, because thats what we do under criminal presidents like bush, obama, and clintons.
Casey is definitely obese
Read mao