fuck the police general

[big_ass]

Read time of the thread is now at upwards of three hours according to the discourse box at the top

[electrowizard]

@big_ass

Assuming people of a given race are more likely to have shared experiences with others of that same race is racist and contributes to the excess focus on race & racial divisiveness

Not at all what I said. I said a white person can never actually understand a black person's experiences with respect to race. You are engaging in some "but I can ignore race, why can't they?" bullshit. They don't get to ignore their race when it is the condition of their subalternity

[big_ass]

@electrowizard

condition of their subalternity

What he means is victimization

To be a black person in his world is to be a victim.

[electrowizard]

@big_ass

I worry that the message is al-ready trickling down. Advice columns in recent years have featured parents asking whether it’s okay for them to adopt children of another race, or whether people can ever truly understand someone of another race enough to marry that person, or whether it wouldn’t be easier for same-sex couples to use the white partner’s egg so as not to have the insurmountable task of handling a black child. Could white supremacists of 50 years ago have dared to dream of such attitudes among people who call themselves liberals?

Yes, white liberals misunderstand and misapply leftist concepts. This isn't news

[hbotz]

why do you assume the misunderstanding liberals are white...?

also i think it is noteworthy because if the leftist concepts are rejected by conservatives and misunderstood by liberals suddenly they are useful only to a very small fraction of the population

it is a nontrivial thing that "your message may be misunderstood and misappropriated"

[big_ass]

@electrowizard

@big_ass

a major point of the article was the experiences of the person's black kids, which is impossible to miss if you actually read it

She brings this up all of once, towards the end. She says they never experienced any racism. The only other things she said about their experience was that they were encouraged to participate in student of color groups. She never even characterizes their reaction to that, just her own

Going back to this to illustrate ewiz's poor comprehension. This is the very first paragraph of the article. The entire point of the article is about her kids and their experiences as minority students in the school

A little more than a week after school ended in June, I ran into a friend who wanted urgently to know whether my children were okay. Her concern was not whether my middle-school son and daughter had caught the virus (she knew they hadn’t), or whether they had suffered from the isolation of a months-long lockdown, or even whether they had managed the stresses of online learning. No, she had just read on a local news website that my children’s school, Rye Country Day, was a hotbed of racial animus, and she was worried that my children, whose father is black, had suffered as a result. I laughed politely and assured her that they were fine. But the more I have thought about their experience over the past year at this elite prep school in Westchester, the more I wonder whether the racialized madness that has overtaken our country will leave any of us “fine”—and the more I have come to believe that these schools are, in fact, beset by racism. It’s just not the kind of racism they think.

[electrowizard]

@hbotz

there is an effect where black kids who perform well in school get bullied by other black kids for "acting white" but this does not exactly vibe with what ewiz is speaking to

It gives exactly and is something I just didn't articulate, but is very important. They're torn between performing their subjectivity in a way that appeases one of two groups. They wouldn't be accepted by the majority white population without acting white, then they have the feelings of being inauthentic by not performing their subjectivity in the manner expected by their community

[hbotz]

er, can you reword that? youre not saying that doing well in school is actually "acting white" are you?

[electrowizard]

That's not about her kids' experience at all. Can you read? She never characterizes how her children feel about it at all. She doesn't even make an attempt to

[big_ass]

essentially these people (young white social justice types) minimize the experiences of actual "people of color" in order to push their particular narrative about race & racism in america - and drive us toward a more racially biased society in pursuit of "racial equity"

[hbotz]

like, suppose i say it as bluntly as possible and declare "it is a problem with black youth culture that they see success as a white trait, and it would be better if black youth culture were not that way.". is this a fair statement?

[electrowizard]

No, but the notion of "doing well in school is acting white" is structured by racial antagonisms in the first place. Whether it's true or not doesn't change the kind of turmoil a teenager experiences when they're torn between that and another view

[insom]

that’s not black cultures fault that’s a societal thing, reinforced by media etc

[electrowizard]

@big_ass

essentially these people (young white social justice types) minimize the experiences of actual "people of color" in order to push their particular narrative about race & racism in america - and drive us toward a more racially biased society in pursuit of "racial equity"

Nope. Her childrens' feelings are glossed over in the entire article. It is her interpretation of the curriculum, not even her childrens' experience of it

[hbotz]

black culture is not a person.

but yes ofc the way black culture got that way involves many factors

[electrowizard]

@hbotz

like, suppose i say it as bluntly as possible and declare "it is a problem with black youth culture that they see success as a white trait, and it would be better if black youth culture were not that way.". is this a fair statement?

Yeah, probably. But the issue is what causes that culture? What societal mechanisms breed that sort of thinking? How do we dismantle them?

[electrowizard]

@hbotz

black culture is not a person.

but yes ofc the way black culture got that way involves many factors

That's not what he's saying. He beat me to the response, but we're both making the same argument. The aspects of culture in black communities that are problematic are structured by societal effects and media narratives. We have to examine how those create aspects of culture and how to dismantle them

[sdadasdas]

Yeah, I also change the way I speak, what I talk about, what concerns me, etc - depending on which social group I am interacting with (mostly only white but of different age and social status), I don't see that as a huge issue but I guess some people feel strongly about that when different races are involved

[electrowizard]

@big_ass

essentially these people (young white social justice types) minimize the experiences of actual "people of color" in order to push their particular narrative about race & racism in america - and drive us toward a more racially biased society in pursuit of "racial equity"

Yes, the white mother who doesn't speak about her kids' subjective experiences or let them give a quote is totally the authority on racism

[electrowizard]

Like I said, not everyone feels like their identity is torn by it. But it's a fairly common thing to hear as an internal struggle for individuals