Yellow Submarine

The reality of delivering humanitarian aid to some of these places is a lot harder than the feel good of saying we should do it (we still should do it)

This is an overly simplistic view and ignores the agency/moral independence of the perceived "victim" communities

Any time you find yourself separating the world into perpetrators and victims you can virtually guarantee you are failing to fully understand the situation.

Thereā€™s really nothing the victims can do when the leader of their country allows some foreign dude to buy everything of value and install their own paramilitary group to make sure nothing goes wrong

Europeans are the victims of widespread illegal immigration from communities of people that as a society have almost nothing in common with European values and have no interest in integrating within European society

Damn. That sucks. Keep the migrants out of Europe

The reality is closer to the 'afghanis' (not a real thing it's not a real country) don't care to be ruled by anyone and the taliban are as much a government as my dick is a paint brush. The only people who identify as afghan are young people in kabul, everyone else identifies as their ethnicity or the village they were born in

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Europeans were largely the victim of the same systems (feudalism etc - some guy takes over your space and installs a paramilitary force) and it's racial essentializing to say "ugh white people" - it's reductive to the point of removing all understanding of history

I still donā€™t get the relationship between bad things happening in one part of the world justifying bad things happening in the part of the world where the people who caused those things originated from

Good enough explanation for me, the little semblance of government that the Taliban has is what the people of Afghanistan want. The US trying to force democratic values unto people who have no interest in living under a society like that was bound to fail. To imply that the US pulling out of Afghanistan leading to an immediate Taliban takeover was somehow a negative to the country of Afghanistan and the people that live there is hilarious and I donā€™t know why LBJ felt the need to use that as an example

You're missing the point the taliban have the same problem we did just in the north and west instead of the south and east. There were always autonomous regions the taliban never showed up to because they knew they weren't wanted and could never control these people. As for being better off who knows, the country is probably starving right now unless they're sucking chinese dick

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It's basically the pashtuns vs the rest of the 'country'

So regions they canā€™t control they donā€™t really attempt to control in any earnest way? Sounds like a country working how itā€™s intended to be worked where the people of certain regions are governed and ruled by who they want to be ruled by

Arenā€™t Pashtuns a majority of the country?

They're just under 50% or something so not a majority but the largest by far

I donā€™t know however you want to look at it, the fact that the Taliban ā€œgovernmentā€ or whatever you want to call it was essentially disposed of by the US military and was able to continue a campaign of low intensity guerrilla warfare/insurgency for 20 years until we left and then essentially took back control of everything they had when we came 20 years prior says to me they were considered the government of Afghanistan for a reason even if they donā€™t have total control like a typical government

Took back control in like 90 days

I hate likening it to the vietnam war but like north vietnam yes they did have some grass roots support, some people hated them, and some were intimidated by their terror tactics (we'll kill your wife and children if you fight against us)

Iā€™m not calling it a perfect form of governance for the people of Afghanistan just that it appears to be the one that works for the highest % of people there and likely has the highest levels of support, even if thatā€™s not a majority support from the entire country.

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The reality is incredibly complex but the fact is we only accomplished scaring them away from allying with international terrorists, built some roads, and got education for one generation of young people in kabul. The rest amounted to basically nothing besides a waste of life